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It Started 2000 Years Ago (Short)
Published on December 13, 2004 By Sabbatismus In Religion
Anti-Christmas in the Christmas Bible Story???? The Biblical account celebrates the day of Christ's birth in Luke 2 and the Gospel of Matthew but, the story of Christ's birth doesn't end there. The Biblical account also reminds us of the slaughter of the innocent infants, (Mt. 2:16-18) , that suffered as a result of Herod's attempt to destroy Christ AT the DAY of His birth. It's not surprising to see those who zealously work today, to destroy celebration of the day OF Christ's birth.... Herod tried it first, 2,000 years ago. Yep, Herod was the first one to try to stomp out Christmas.


Comments (Page 1)
on Dec 13, 2004
I love that last line! Awesome and profound!
on Dec 13, 2004

It's not surprising to see those who zealously work today, to destroy celebration of the day OF Christ's birth

i dont know of any zealous attempts to destroy the celebration of christmas in this country.  if youre referring to legal challenges to sectarian exhibits or activities on or involving publicly-owned property or tax-funded programs, your statement is an extreme exageration/misconstrual of both intent and consequence. it's not a matter of destroying anything but protecting/ensuring every citizen's right to engage in his or her preferred  religous expression without attaching to any one faith or belief the appearance of government endorsement (or lack thereof). 

or...perhaps you meant retailers who'd welcome expanding the christmas season 4 months longer and starting it four months earlier, would happily surround and fill their stores with representational  creches, angels, wise men, shepherds, the holy family, candles, stars, rudolph and his blinking red nose, santa, elves, sleighs, bows, the sounds of carols, jingle bells, etc. etc. to guide shoppers to the true miracle of christmas--its commerical potential. nobody or nothing does more to diminish the true meaning of christmas

i hadnt thought of this for a while, but i guess it's probably a good thing the first celebrations of xmas began 30 years after herod's rampage.  the parents of those boy babies who were slain on herod's orders may not have considered the anniversary of that massacre were very likely dead themselves by 34ad.  thos who werent probably wouldnt have considered that anniversary much of an occasion for joyousness.

on Dec 13, 2004
I had never thought of it that way, but the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore!
on Dec 13, 2004
I had never thought of it that way, but the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore!


I agree!
on Dec 13, 2004
Not to put too fine a point on it, but since Herod ordered to kill each LIVING male child, he was trying to forestall Easter, not Christmas.

IG

on Dec 13, 2004
Actually, since the story appears in only one gospel and no historical sources (although we have detailed records of Herod's reign) it's most likely a fairy tale made up to paint Herod as an "evil king." Herod was responsible for plenty of bad things, but this "murder of the innocents" has no historical proof to back it up -- and only one gospel, written 80 to 100 years after the alleged death of Yeshua of Nazereth.
on Dec 13, 2004

the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore


well, who am i to try to argue with reason?  come to think of it, whatta great reason to counter the growing moment to destroy xmas by infusing the traditional celebration with even more new testament authenticity!  herod has been left too long off to the side.  even the merchandisers will go for this one cuz itll add new product to jazz up the the limited character product line by adding new life-like reprensentations of herod AND some dead babies to the shepherds, wise men, manger animals, angels, etc.  

an evil-looking king herod action figure and some little dead babies to scatter around the creche could do a lot to help believers recapture the threat aspect that has been so successfully secularized by attribution to santa claus, the grinch and the economy.  having herod around to 'see you when youre bad' and some dead kids has to be a much more effective deterent to 4th quarter kid sinning than some fat old homeless guy who merely withholds presents.

on a more basic level, it fills a badly neglected guilt void  ('but daddy, werent their parents sad about having their kids killed so the rest of us could have a wonderful holiday?  couldn't god have hidden them someplace so they didnt get killed? well you see kids, whenever bad people try to 'take jesus out' of the equation theyre helping to kill these poor innocent babies.  seeing those dead babies should always remind you of evildoers who dont abstain and wind up having abortions')

let's face it, while there's definitely a place for joy at the birth of christ, too much joy erods a healthy fear of god just like too much candy eventually rots healthy teeth.

on Dec 14, 2004
KingBee, I honestly cannot see how you cannot see the attacks on Christmas in this country. Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.

You know, I will bet money that next year, the christmas decorations will become fewer and fewer. YOu can argue about the almighty corporate dollar, but if things continue on the path they are, I can see Wal-Mart or another big chain coming out with an announcement that they will no longer carry holiday supplies. One or two complaints from people about how there are no Kwanzaa or Hanukah supplies and I can see them back out completely.

on Dec 14, 2004
Herod's attempt to destroy Christ AT the DAY of His birth


While I agree with the sentiment, it's believed by many biblical scholars that Jesus was probably well into the toddler age when the massacre occured, and I think the gospel is in accordance to that belief.

By the time the magi arrived before Herod, Jesus would already have been up to two years old. From Judea to Bethlehem isn't all that far of a walk, but as soon as Herod realized the Magi had took a powder, instead of coming straight back, he ordered the deaths of all boys two and under "in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi." v.16

Actually, since the story appears in only one gospel and no historical sources


Of course, if you try to rationalise the Bible as a loose "mythical" set of stories it doesn't make rational sense. That's why it's called faith. If God did nothing extraordinary, then what would set our faith apart?

If you believe that God can raise the dead, perform miracles, and bring eternal salvation to our souls (which of course there is no "proof" for as well,) then it's silly not to believe that he can keep a book containing his message to turn out the way that he wants it.

Either you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, or not. If you do, then faith allows for belief in the improbable or "impossible." If you do not, then of course it seems silly to use it as an infallible source. Here endeth the incredibly long comment.
on Dec 15, 2004
Sabbatismus, who is my father for those that don't already know, wanted me to let anyone reading and commenting know that he is having computer problems logging into JU when he is traveling out of town. He want greatly to continue this discussion and respond to your comments. He will do so as soon as possible.
on Dec 15, 2004

Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.


there are no christmas lights on private homes, churches, stores in raleigh? 


public schools are state instutions.  would you be okay with the school celebrating a religious holiday with carols, decorations, etc. that were very clearly identified with a particular christian sect? jehovah's witnesses perhaps? or snake handlers? how about the type of catholicism common to brazil or haiti that's combined the ancient african gods with catholic saints? unitarian?  the most sensible and constitutional way to ensure one sect isnt--or doesnt appear to be--endorsed by the government is to keep government institutions free of expressly religious events or symbols.
you are responsible for instilling your children with your religious values and traditions.  public school teachers arent hired on the basis of their theological qualifications.  religious school teachers are.  if you wish your children to receive dogmatic instruction, you have every right to enroll them in a private church-school.


do you work for a government agency?  if you work in the private sector, the owners of the company have every right to manifest their religious beliefs.  they may choose not to do so, however, rather than risk alienating non-christian customers. 

on Dec 15, 2004

lights, bows, holly, or anything


since those are non-religious holiday trappings--as opposed to holy day symbols--i'm surprised any business owner would have a problem with them any more than they would the easter bunny or a jackolantern.

on Dec 15, 2004
Well the thing that I find most disturbing is the fact that, instead of being tolerant of all religions, they simply 'do away' with any type of display. Want Kwanzaa lights downtown? Or a menorah display at a school? I don''t mind. In fact I look forward to learning about the other religions and seeing their displays. But the fact that the norm seems to be to just do away with any display upsets me.

I thought it was Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

on Dec 15, 2004

I thought it was Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion


freeing the state from religion is the only sure way to free religion from the state.

on Dec 15, 2004

damn double posts

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