public schools are state instutions. would you be okay with the school celebrating a religious holiday with carols, decorations, etc. that were very clearly identified with a particular christian sect? jehovah's witnesses perhaps? or snake handlers? how about the type of catholicism common to brazil or haiti that's combined the ancient african gods with catholic saints? unitarian? the most sensible and constitutional way to ensure one sect isnt--or doesnt appear to be--endorsed by the government is to keep government institutions free of expressly religious events or symbols. you are responsible for instilling your children with your religious values and traditions. public school teachers arent hired on the basis of their theological qualifications. religious school teachers are. if you wish your children to receive dogmatic instruction, you have every right to enroll them in a private church-school.

Does anyone find it odd that in the "public school system" in California, children are not allowed to mention God, Jesus Christ or any mention of the Bible- yet are allowed to read from the Koran, to role play the muslim faith and must understand and quote the 7 tenants of the muslim faith? That in Washington state the public school considers the celebration of Halloween as a holiday and give extra care not to offen witches, as they consider this their Holy Day? In Oregon a child could not distribute a Christmas card with the story of the candy cane because it referenced the name of Jesus Christ. It's not only California, Oregon and Washington where this is promoted.

It seems that the direction of our nation is not Seperation of Church (religion) & State but God, Jesus Christ, the Bible and State!

Merry Christmas
preacherman

Does anyone find it odd that in the "public school system" in California, children are not allowed to mention God, Jesus Christ or any mention of the Bible- yet are allowed to read from the Koran, to role play the muslim faith and must understand and quote the 7 tenants of the muslim faith?

i find it strange beyond credibility.  can you cite the california statute(s) that forbid the mention of god or require the recitation of the 7 tenets (do you mean the five pillars?) of islam?

? In Oregon a child could not distribute a Christmas card with the story of the candy cane because it referenced the name of Jesus Christ

 

im not sure why jesus' name would be mentioned in the story of the candycane.  what did the text say?

It seems that the direction of our nation is not Seperation of Church (religion) & State but God, Jesus Christ, the Bible and State!

there's no mention of god, jesus or the bible in the constitution.

US Constitution

Article VII
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,



Yep..

No mention of God in the Constitution..

No mention of God in the Constitution

omg...youve discovered the DARK SECRET we've all taken a satanic oath to hide.  please dont tell anyone about that okay? 

On the subject of Church and State, I think the differences between most Christians, as most were Christian at the time of the writing of the Constitution, is that Jefferson's wall of separation was intended to keep protect religion from the state, not the state from religion. What is being applied by those who oppose freedom of expression of religion, particularly the Christian faith, the state is opposing one religion in particular, the Christian faith. In balance, the state or states have allowed the freedom of teaching and expression of other non-Christian faiths while some are still allowing the expression of the Christian faith . Although, its only as long as no one complains.

KingBee, I honestly cannot see how you cannot see the attacks on Christmas in this country. Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.

Heh......ever see the episode of "South Park" where the town outlaws Christmas celebrations in an attempt to keep from offending anyone? They went around town taking down anything that anyone found even remotely offensive.

"Uh, Mayor? How about this misteltoe?"
Mayor turns to crowd and yells "Mistletoe...anybody offended by mistletoe?"
One guy in the back raises his hand.
"Take it down!"

In the end, they discovered that there was nothing left for anyone to enjoy. Iin their fervor to be fair to all, they took everything away. Some were offended by Hanukka stuff, others by Kwanzaa. It was all taken away......it all had to come down, to avoid offending anyone.

Of course, in real life, only the Christmas stuff would have had to come down; non-Christians are allowed to be offended by our beliefs, but it matters not one whit if we're offended by others. Our feelings on the subject don't count.

Very well, said.

Well, Christ wasn't born on December 25th, sad to say. There's much that can be gleaned from reading in context to understand this. As well, there is no directive in the bible to celebrate "Christmas"...I think the celebration of it or lack thereof is up to the individual.

It would be more fair to say that Herrod tried to stomp out CHRIST than "Christmas".

im not sure why jesus' name would be mentioned in the story of the candycane. what did the text say?

King,

There's an apocryphal story that ascribes religious significance to the candy cane. If you are familiar with the nature of apocryphal stories, you can probably piece it together. If not, I'm reasonably certain snopes has it.

Here is the story, with the snopes followup, for your info:

A candymaker in Indiana wanted to make a candy that would be a witness, so he made the Christmas Candy Cane. He incorporated several symbols from the birth, ministry, and death of Jesus Christ.

He began with a stick of pure white, hard candy. White to symbolize the Virgin Birth and the sinless nature of Jesus, and hard to symbolize the Solid Rock, the foundation of the Church, and firmness of the promises of God.

The candymaker made the candy in the form of a "J" to represent the precious name of Jesus, who came to earth as our Savior. It could also represent the staff of the "Good Shepherd" with which He reaches down into the ditches of the world to lift out the fallen lambs who, like all sheep, have gone astray.

Thinking that the candy was somewhat plain, the candymaker stained it with red stripes. He used three small stripes to show the stripes of the scourging Jesus received by which we are healed. The large red stripe was for the blood shed by Christ on the cross so that we could have the promise of eternal life.

Unfortunately, the candy became known as a Candy Cane -- a meaningless decoration seen at Christmas time. But the meaning is still there for those who "have eyes to see and ears to hear." Every time you see a Candy Cane, remember the Wonder of Jesus and His Great Love that came down at Christmas, and that His Love remains the ultimate and dominant force in the universe today.

Variations:   Candy canes are also said to have been created:

• As a sweet treat for children who behaved well in church
  
  
  
• As a form of identification among Christians during a time of persecution

Origins:   The

red-and-white-striped, sugary candy cane can be found everywhere at Christmastime. It's as much an ornament as it is a confection, and people munch these treats and decorate with them, scarcely giving a thought to just where candy canes came from in the first place.

It has become fashionable of late to claim that the candy cane was not only designed to be fraught with Christian religious symbolism, but that it was created as a means by which persecuted Christians could furtively identify each other. Like the apocryphal tale of the "true" meaning of the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas," these claims are fiction — latter day attempts to infuse secular holiday traditions with specifically religious origins and meanings.

First off, the notion that candy canes could have been used as a secret means of identification by persecuted European Christians is directly contradicted by history. Candy canes didn't appear until at least the latter part of the 17th century, by which time Europe was almost entirely Christian. By then, people who were not Christians would have been the ones in need of this form of "secret handshake"!

Next, candy canes were most assuredly not created by "a candymaker in Indiana" who "stained them with red stripes to show the stripes of the scourging Jesus received." Candy canes were around long before there was an Indiana, and they initially bore neither red coloration nor striping — the red stripes were a feature that did not appear until a few hundred years later, at the beginning of the 20th century:

About 1847, August Imgard of Ohio managed to decorate his Christmas tree with candy canes to entertain his nephews and nieces. Many who saw his canes went home to boil sugar and experiment with canes of their own. It took nearly another half century before someone added stripes to the canes . . . Christmas cards produced before 1900 show plain white canes, while striped ones appear on many cards printed early in the 20th century.¹

In fact, the strongest connection one can make between the origins of the candy cane and intentional Christian symbolism is to note that legend says someone took an existing form of candy which was already being used as a Christmas decoration (i.e., straight white sticks of sugar candy) and produced bent versions which represented a shepherd's crook and were handed out to children at church to ensure their good behavior:

Soon after Europeans adopted the use of Christmas trees, they began making special decorations for them. Food items predominated, with cookies and candy heavily represented. That is when straight, white sticks of sugar candy came into use at Christmas, probably during the seventeenth century.

Tradition has it that some of these candies were put to use in Cologne Cathedral about 1670 while restless youngsters were attending ceremonies around the living creche. To keep them quiet, the choirmaster persuaded craftsmen to make sticks of candy bent at the end to represent shepherds' crooks, then he passed them out to boys and girls who came to the cathedral.¹

Claims made about the candy's religious symbolism have become increasingly widespread as religious leaders have assured their congregations that these mythologies are factual, the press have published these claims as authoritative answers to readers' inquiries about the confection's meaning, and several lavishly illustrated books purport to tell the "true story" of the candy cane's origins. This is charming folklore at best, and though there's nothing wrong with finding (and celebrating) symbolism where there wasn't any before, the story of the candy cane's origins is, like Santa Claus, a myth and not a "true story."

Barbara "the cane mutiny" Mikkelson

Sightings:   Fictional accounts of the candy cane's religious origins are the subject of a number of colorful Christmas volumes, including The Candymaker's Gift: A Legend of the Candy Cane by Helen Haidle (1996), The Candy Cane Story by Joy Merchant Nall and Thomas Nall, Jr. (1996), The Legend of the Candy Cane by Lori Walburg (1997), and the children's book The "J" Is For Jesus by Alice Joyce Davidson (1998).

i find it strange beyond credibility. can you cite the california statute(s) that forbid the mention of god or require the recitation of the 7 tenets (do you mean the five pillars?) of islam?

Sorry kingbee you were correct. It is the 5-pillars of Islam. I don't know alot about the Islam beliefs. The link is listed below
Link

preacherman

Judge rules Islamic education OK in California classrooms
Worldnetdaily ^ | December 13, 2003 | © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com


Posted on 11/24/2004 7:30:01 PM PST by Exton1


Judge rules Islamic education OK in California classrooms
Dismisses suit opposing requirement students recite Quran, pray to Allah


Link

Insightful Gideon Macleish

preacherman

Oh, Heck. I forgot to mention, The first Anti-Chrismas guy, Herod, 2000 years ago? He was a government offical. Imagine that, a government offical being Anti-Christ-mas.

I give you an Insightful for this whole blog sabbatismus.

In fact it was so insightful I am going to preach on this tomorrow morning. Hope you don't mind? I will give you full credit for the substance.

Merry Christmas
preacherman

In fact it was so insightful I am going to preach on this tomorrow morning. Hope you don't mind? I will give you full credit for the substance.

As his daughter, I can tell you preacherman that Sabbatismus would not mind at all. He would be honored.

I love reading your stuff, too, preacherman.